[ download Textbooks ] Apomnemoneumata Sokratus; Symposion; Apologia SokratusAuthor Xenophon – Sharkmotorcyclehelmets.co.uk

After The Execution Of Socrates In BC, A Number Of His Followers Wrote Dialogues Featuring Him As The Protagonist And, In So Doing, Transformed The Great Philosopher Into A Legendary Figure Xenophon S Portrait Is The Only One Other Than Plato S To Survive, And While It Offers A Very Personal Interpretation Of Socratic Thought, It Also Reveals Much About The Man And His Philosophical Views In Socrates Defence Xenophon Defends His Mentor Against Charges Of Arrogance Made At His Trial, While The Memoirs Of Socrates Also Starts With An Impassioned Plea For The Rehabilitation Of A Wronged Reputation Along With The Estate Manager , A Practical Economic Treatise, And The Dinner Party , A Sparkling Exploration Of Love, Xenophon S Dialogues Offer Fascinating Insights Into The Socratic World And Into The Intellectual Atmosphere And Daily Life Of Ancient Greece

10 thoughts on “Apomnemoneumata Sokratus; Symposion; Apologia Sokratus

  1. says:

    If you re into stuff like this, you can read the full review.Daimonisation Conversations of Socrates by Xenophon, Hugh Tredennick trans Original Review, 2002 06 23 Socrates was also interesting because of his physicality.His routine was to spend the morning exercising then the afternoon in the market place on his mission He was extremely fit and brave, fighting in three campaigns, the last aged 50, and honoured for his bravery in battle He was terrifying apparently Also he had a kind of walk that was unusual, a kind of gait that would strike fear into potential enemies.

  2. says:

    Socrates has always been a hero of mine, when the daughters were very young I told them the story of his death and told them that he died asking questions and his death therefore meant their birthright was to be able to ask questions Both of them still are just as likely to begin a sentence with, Dad, I ve got a question and both know they will, if they begin a sentence in that way, be guaranteed my undivided attention Now, after reading this, I think I need to say that Plato s Socrates is my hero To be honest, I think I enjoyed the introductions to these four works than the works themselves I kept wondering if Plato s works had not survived what would we have made of Socrates It would seem very unlikely that we would still consider him the central figure at the birth of Western Idealist philosophy if all that was left of him were the descriptions in Xenophon s rather patchy works.The thing that would have to be removed from his resume or CV if you prefer would be his Socratic Method, or the dialectical process of truth through questioning I was very surprised by how little this was used by Xenophon in any of these works In fact, Socrates is much too preachy in Xenophon This was something that was mentioned in one of the introductions, but I really would have noticed this myself Think about the things you really know about Socrates One must be that he asks lots of questions now, I know, even in Plato those questions are pointed, directed and intended to lead pretty much in one direction but at least that is how he works The point of the questioning is that Socrates believes that truth is about revealing in the sense of showing what is already there to be found to show To Plato s Socrates one must essentially find information out for one s self His questions are designed to lead those being questioned towards the truth towards a kind of uncovering.Xenophon s Socrates, particularly in the Memoirs but elsewhere too , talks too much in homilies for my taste He dispenses wisdom and often that wisdom is a bit too much like Dr Phil.The other thing you know about Socrates is that he was the guy who said, All I know is that I know nothing Which, of course, is the other explanation for all the questions This really does not come across in any of the works here Socrates is presented as a god among men the sort of man people ought to hang around on the assumption that goodness is in some way contagious.If Plato s works are sublime, Xenophon s are much every day This is even clear in the difference in the English translations given to the titles of the works written by the two authors Plato writes the Socratic Dialogues, Xenophon the Conversations Plato writes The Symposium, Xenophon The Dinner Party Plato The Apology and Xenophon Socrates Defence Even though the actual titles given by Plato and Xenophon themselves are the same word in Ancient Greek the English translations of these titles says much about the substance of the works themselves I mean, Plato s works deserve to have higher sounding titles than Xenophons.Stylistically too, Xenophon is no match but this is really not saying much Plato is one of the greatest writers of all time It would be like comparing Pride and Prejudice to some hideous book written by some no hope, second rater that tells the story of what happened next in the lives of Elizabeth and Fitzwilliam after their marriage Yes, exactly it is hard not to make that face when you think about it, isn t it What did surprise me, though, was that many of Xenophon s works seemed very much patched together This was particularly true of the last of the works here The Estate Manager This was two works or less stuck together and the seams do show almost as much as if the shirt was worn inside out.Plato s treatment of women is infinitely better than Xenophon s Hypatia, one of the greatest personages of history and one of my greatest heroes and as good a reason to hate that particular class of Christians Palin represents as any other only got to have an education because her father was a Neo Platonist Hard to imagine her getting that opportunity if her father had been a Neo Xenophonian All the same Xenophon s treatment of women was much better than, say, Hegel s or so many other philosophers At least the woman in The Estate Manager was able to learn something.I have often wondered how much the Socrates in history was like the Socrates in the Dialogues how much was he a creation of Plato I guess we will never really know I am glad that I read these works, because, if nothing else, they make Plato s Socrates seem all the remarkable.I was also disappointed that Xenophon had Socrates repeatedly say that one should do good to one s friends, but bad to one s enemies This is the opposite of what Plato tells us was a core idea of Socrates philosophy once again I m going to have to go with Plato Of all the works here, The Dinner Party was probably the best It was quite delightful in places particularly when Socrates was explaining why he was better looking than his host That is the other thing it is important to know about my mate Socrates he was quite ugly He had a face like a well skelped arse as they say in Belfast.It is amusing to think that there are essentially three writers extant who knew and wrote about Socrates and each has such a remarkably different opinion of him everything from fool through to genius I am going to have to read The Clouds now by Aristophanes it can t be helped and ought not to be delayed.

  3. says:

    I have no doubt that the future, just as the past has done, will attest that I never wronged or harmed anyone, but benefited those I conversed with by freely teaching them any good thing I could Apology __________ So, since my becoming a good man is not entirely out of the question, do please tell me all about what you do, and then, in so far as I can understand what you say, I ll be able to try to follow suit, which is what I ll do, starting from tomorrow morning For tomorrow is a good day for embarking on a life of virtue Oeconomicus __________This volume collects Xenophon s four Socratic Dialogues Apology, Memorabilia, Symposium, and Oeconomicus Apology is a very short work detailing Socrates thoughts about his upcoming trial Memorabilia is Xenophon s major Socratic work Comprising four books, it could be simply described as short conversations with Socrates on a variety of topics, both public and private, and nicely displays Socrates trademark reasoning Symposium shows both Socrates and his follower s humorous side whilst they discuss love, and would nicely complement Plato s Dialogue of the same title Oeconomicus contains a discussion of one s Estate, and is a little too long and non philosophical in my opinion It can be skipped without much loss, and be left to completionists.This penguin edition is highly recommended It contains a good general introduction, as well as excellent introductions to the individual works containing some very useful reference points with Plato s dialogues, as well as very good notes.With regards to comparisons with Plato, I ll leave this here from Mr Waterfield s Introduction In short, to prefer Plato s portrait to Xenophon s is just to compare Xenophon unfavourably with Plato as both a writer and a thinker But this is only to say that not everyone is a genius. __________ I open and read from beginning to end the books in which the wise men of past times have written down and bequeathed to us their treasures and when I see anything good, I take it for myself and I regard our mutual friendship as great gain Memorabilia, 1.6 If they rediscovered their ancestors way of life and followed it as well as they did Memorabilia 2.5 _____ while others acquire their shop bought luxuries at a high price, I arrange far greater, mental luxuries at no cost at all Apology For instance, when I want to have a good time, I don t buy luxuries in the market it costs too much I supply myself from my own mind Symposium 4 Most people never turn to examine themselves Don t shirk this responsibility, but make a greater effort to take yourself seriously Memorabilia 2.7 It s your turn, Niceratus tell us what accomplishment you re proud of Niceratus said, My father, because he was concerned to make me a good man, made me learn the whole works of Homer and I could now repeat by heart the entire Iliad and Odyssey Symposium 3 You know, I presume, that within the poems of that greatest of sages, Homer, is information about practically every aspect of human affairs Symposium 4 what ought we to smell of True goodness, of course, said Socrates And where can one get this lotion Not at a perfumery, certainly Symposium 2 Don t you realize that this creature which they call the bloom of youth is even dangerous than spiders if one looks at it, even from quite a distance, it can inject a kind of poison that drives one crazy No I advise you, Xenophon, when you see an attractive person, to take to your heels as fast as you can and I advise you, Critobulus, to go away for a year That may give you just enough time to recover Memorabilia 1.3 _____ One of those present was Apollodorus, who was a great devotee of Socrates He said, but the most difficult thing for me to bear, Socrates, is that I see you being unjustly put to death Socrates as the story goes stroked Apollodorus head and replied with a smile You re a good friend, Apollodorus, but would you rather see me put to death justly or unjustly Defence When I consider how wise the man was, and how high minded, I am bound to remember him and when I remember him, I am bound to admire him If anyone in his search for virtue has encountered a helpful person than Socrates, then he deserves, in my opinion, to be called the most fortunate of all men Defence ____________________ The Choice of Heracles Memorabilia 2.1 The same view of moral goodness is also set out by the sophist Prodicus in the story of Heracles, which is one of his most popular displays it runs like this, as far as I remember When Heracles was setting out from childhood toward manhood, at the age when the young become independent and show whether they are going to approach life by the path of goodness or by the path of wickedness, he went out to a quiet spot and sat down considering which way he should take While he was sitting there, he thought he saw two women approach him Both were tall, but one of them was handsome in appearance with a natural air of distinction, clean limbed and modest in expression, and soberly dressed in a white robe, while the other was well fed to the point of fleshiness and softness, made up to have a complexion too red and white to be real, and with a carriage upright than was natural, with a brazen expression, and robed in a way that revealed as much as possible of her charms She kept on examining herself, and watching to see if anyone was looking at her, and glancing at her own shadow When they got nearer Heracles, the first of the two continued to advance in the same way, but the other, wishing to forestall her, ran up to him and said Heracles, I see that you cannot make up your mind which way of life to adopt If you take me as your friend, I will lead you by the easiest and pleasantest road you shall not miss the taste of any pleasure, and you shall live out your life without any experience of hardship In the first place, you will not be concerned with wars or responsibilities you shall constantly consider what food or drink you can find to suit your taste, and what sight or sound or scent or touch might please you, and which lover s society will gratify you most, and how you can sleep most comfortably, and how you can achieve all these objects with the least trouble And if there is ever any suspicion of a shortage of any of these benefits, you need not fear that I shall involve you in any physical or mental effort or distress in procuring them you shall enjoy the fruits of other people s labours, and you shall refrain from nothing from which you can derive any advantage, because I authorise my followers to benefit themselves from all quarters When Heracles heard this, he asked, What is your name, lady She replied, My friends call me Happiness, but people who don t like me nickname me Vice Meanwhile, the other woman came forward and said, I too have come to meet you, Heracles, because I know your parents and I have carefully observed your natural qualities in the course of your education, and this knowledge makes me hope that, if you will only take the path that leads to me, you may become a very effective performer of fine and noble deeds, and I may win much greater honour still, and brighter glory for the blessings I bestow I will not delude you with promises of future pleasure I shall give you a true account of the facts, exactly as the gods have ordained them Nothing that is really good and admirable is granted bu the gods to men without some effort and application If you want the gods to be gracious to you, you must worship the gods if you wish to be loved by your friends, you must be kind to your friends if you desire to be honoured by a State, you must help that State if you expect to be admired for your fine qualities by the whole of Greece, you must try to benefit Greece if you want your land to produce abundant crops, you must look after your land if you expect to make money from your livestock, you must take care of your livestock if you have an impulse to extend your influence by war, and want to be able to free your friends and subdue your enemies, you must both learn the actual arts of war from those who understand them, and practise the proper way of applying them and if you want to be physically efficient, you must train your body to be subject to your reason, and develop it with hard work and sweat Here Vice, as Prodicus tells, broke in Do you realise, Heracles, she said, what a long and difficult road to enjoyment this woman is describing to you I will put you on a short and easy road to happiness Impudent creature said Virtue What good have you to offer, or what do you know of pleasure, you who refuse to do anything with a view to either You don t even wait for the desire for what is pleasant you stuff yourself with everything before you want it, eating before you are hungry and drinking before you are thirsty To make eating enjoyable you invent refinements of cookery, and to make drinking enjoyable, you provide yourself with expensive wines and rush about searching for ice in summer To make going to sleep pleasant, you provide yourself not only with soft blankets, but also with bases for your beds, for it is not work but boredom that makes you want to go to bed You force the gratification of your sexual impulses before they ask for it, employing all kinds of devices and trading men as women That is the sort of training that you give your friends exciting their passions by night, and putting them to sleep for the best part of the day Although you are immortal, you have been turned out by the gods, and you are despised by decent men You are denied the hearing of the sweetest of all sounds praise of yourself and you are denied the seeing of the sweetest of all sights, for you have never contemplated any act of yours that was admirable Who would trust your word Who would assist you if you needed someone What sane person would have the face to join your devotees When they are young, they are feeble in body, and when they get older, they are foolish in mind they are maintained in their youth in effortless comfort, but pass their old age in laborious squalor, disgraced by their past actions and burdened by their present ones, because in their youth they have run through all that was pleasant, and laid up for their old age what is hard to bear I associate both with gods and with good men, and no fine action, human or divine, is done independently of me I am held in the highest honour both among gods and men who are akin to me I am a welcome fellow worker to the craftsman, a faithful guardian to the householder, a kindly protector to the servant, an efficient helper in the tasks of peace, a staunch ally in the operations of war, and the best partner in friendship My friends can enjoy food and drink with pleasure and without effort, because they abstain until they feel a desire for them Their sleep is sweeter than the sleep of the easy living, and they neither are vexed when they have to give it up, nor make it an excuse for neglecting their duty The young enjoy the praise of their elders, and the older people are happy in the respect of the young They recall their past achievements with pleasure, and rejoice in their present successes, because through me they are dear to the gods, loved by their friends, and honoured by their country And when their appointed end comes, they do not lie forgotten in obscurity, but flourish celebrated in memory for all time That is roughly how Prodicus describes the education of Heracles by Virtue, except that he actually dressed up the sentiments in language still splendid than I have used now At any rate, Aristippus, you had better think this over and try to take some account of the factors that will affect the life that lies in front of you

  4. says:

    This is a quick read The Man asks a lot of questions A teacher perhaps but not in the casual definition of the word He, like others, paid the ultimate price, for his personal quest to be virtuous This is one component of human nature, false and creative verdicts, repeated without interruption, before him and after him And like all who exist within the realm of a mind, whether it was shared, written, adjudicated or kept privately, these thoughts are buried with their body when all is finished And the earth continues to spin.A final note is whether he, like a Shakespeare, ever even existed

  5. says:

    I read this book fairly quickly but I think I absorbed it well enough to say that it was an excellent defense and portrayal of Socrates I really feel no need to make Xenophon s portrayal of Socrates compete with Plato s The impressions I get of him in both accounts is not all that incompatible Xenophon mentions early on that Socrates was not given to discourses on metaphysics, and I must conclude that this is most likely correct The times when Plato portrays Socrates this way must be seen as Plato using Socrates as his own mouthpiece for subjects and questions that interested him personally Plato was most likely influenced by philosophers like Pythagoras and Anaxagoras for this element of his thought Xenophon mentions than once that Socrates thought that those kinds of speculations were vain and frivolous even going so far as to make Anaxagoras a byword for that kind of frivolity Xenophon s portrayal of Socrates as being concerned with ethics is almost certainly correct historically Another interesting divergence is that Xenophon s Socrates is unabashedly against the kind of eros that would have any kind of pederastic overtones Plato made this somewhat ambiguous Other than in Plato s erotic motifs and in his metaphysics, the two versions of Socrates are not that disparate You still have a man who was dedicated to investigating truth and given to meticulous interrogations of interlocutors The elenchus of the Socratic method is still unquestionably there, but maybe not quite as overwrought as in the Platonic dialogues Book 4 Chapter 2 is a worthy comparison to the Socrates of the early Platonic dialogues Here you have Socrates seeking to convince Euthydemus that he really knows nothing and of course Socrates is successful Many of the cast of characters, such as Euthydemus, make appearances in both accounts of Socrates Xenophon even mentions Plato once It seems though that Xenophon s portrayal is purposely polemical in regards to Plato Even though I am very much a Plato enthusiast, I am not that bothered by Xenophon s tendency for polemics.Xenophon s portrayal of Socrates gives us a much rounded picture of the kind of man Socrates was Somewhere between his and Plato s accounts we really do get a feel for who the man was That makes this work an important historical document and thus very essential reading.

  6. says:

    Ok so Xenophon is no Plato we all know that I would have still loved this collection anyway though just for the dinner party alone Who knew Socrates was both the best looking man of the bunch and also apparently the best potential pimp Yes that is it folks, lets not be fooled, Socrates is the greatest potential pimp of all time One star lost for the estate manager although I was surprised to find out how much I too know about agriculture Perhaps I would also make a good farmer

  7. says:

    Xenophon s Conversations of Socrates is a great addition to the home library of any lover of Socratic philosophy Xenophon s work can easily be described as four books within a book His four topics include Socrates Defense, Memoirs of Socrates, The Dinner Party, and Estate Manager Xenophon is no Plato but most believe that the image we receive from Plato is the only portrait of Socrates It then would only make logical sense to have Xenophon s image as well A must read and great asset along side Plato s portrait of the greatest philosopher to walk the earth.

  8. says:

    interesting as an alternate non platonic take on socrates but mostly it just makes you realize how brilliant plato was still though, there are a lot of really good lines Upon this, Socrates asked him whether he had ever been at Delphi, and Euthydemus answered that he had been there twice Did you not take notice, said Socrates, that somewhere on the front of the temple there is this inscription, Know thyself I remember, answered he, I have read it there It is not enough, replied Socrates, to have read it

  9. says:

    I love Xenophon He is a rare breed philosopher, soldier, historian and mercenary I imagine him as a 4th century BC combination of Teddy Roosevelt and William T Vollmann Memorabilia is a nice piece to read along with Plato s dialogues While Plato s remembrances of Socrates are philosophic and cerebral, Xenophon presents a slightly different and down to earth picture of the great ethical philosopher.

  10. says:

    I seem to be in the minority here, but in many ways I prefer Xenophon to Plato This book was a breath of fresh air His simple pragmatism makes him sound like someone I d want to be friends with, invite to dinner or the ilk Apparently he s not for everyone, but he has my vote.